Washington (CNN)Hillary
Clinton and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders met Thursday in Brooklyn for
their last debate before New York's primary, and CNN's Reality Check
team spent the night putting their statements and assertions to the
test.
The team of reporters,
researchers and editors across CNN listened throughout the debate,
selecting key statements and rating them either true; mostly true; true,
but misleading; false; or it's complicated.
Bernie Sanders
Reality Check: Sanders 'led the opposition' to war in Iraq
By Sonam Vashi and Eve Bower, CNN
Early
in the New York debate, Sanders drew a contrast between what he called
Clinton's lack of "judgment" in supporting the 2003 invasion of Iraq and
his own opposition to that war.
"I led the opposition to that war," Sanders said. "Secretary Clinton voted for it."
The
claim is one he has made frequently on the campaign trail, including at
a previous debate, when he said, "In 2002, when George W. Bush and Dick
Cheney said we should go to war in Iraq, Bernie Sanders listened very
carefully and I said, 'No. I think that war is a dumb idea.' I helped
lead the opposition to that war. And if you go to my website, listen to
what I said, and sadly enough, it gives me no joy, much of what I feared
would happen, did happen."
Sanders
was in the House of Representatives at the time. In October 2002, he
made a statement on the floor of the House that criticized the idea of
invading Iraq, citing concerns about international law and unintended
consequences.
"Who will govern Iraq
when Saddam Hussein is removed and what role will the U.S. play in an
ensuing civil war that could develop in that country? Will moderate
governments in the region who have large Islamic fundamentalist
populations be overthrown and replaced by extremists?" he asked.
His
2002 statement is the best documented evidence of his opposition to the
war, and he also voted against the authorization of military force in
Iraq in 2002 (one of 133 members of Congress to do so). He also spoke
out against the war in a 2007 address to the Senate.
But
was he at the forefront of the opposition? We can't find much evidence
of that -- at least not to the point of other congressional opposition
leaders on the issue, such as then-Sen. Russ Feingold, who gave several
speeches against the war and introduced legislation to cut off its
funding.
The late Ted Kennedy did the same in the days before the war and after.
Sanders
voted against Iraq War funding six times but supported four funding
bills after 2006 (his volunteer-run site offers justifications for why
he did fund those bills).
While
perhaps not at the level of Feingold or Kennedy, Sanders spoke out
against it during a time when opposition to the war in Iraq was rare.
(For example, Clinton, then a New York senator, voted yes on the Iraq
War resolution, as Sanders often notes). We rate his claim that he
"helped lead" the opposition mostly true.
Reality Check: Sanders on the major banks
By Tami Luhby, CNNMoney
It didn't take Sanders long to attack Wall Street banks.
"When
you have six financial institutions that have assets equivalent to 58%
of the (gross domestic product) of this country, they were just too big,
too much concentration of wealth and power," Sanders said.
The
nation's biggest financial institutions were JPMorgan Chase, Bank of
America, Wells Fargo, Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, as of
December 2015, according to Federal Reserve Bank data. Their assets
totaled just under $9.7 trillion.
Meanwhile, the U.S. GDP, a measure of the U.S. economy, was $18.2 trillion.
So the assets of the six largest institutions totaled roughly 53.2% of the GDP.
The
size of bank assets and the GDP shift every quarter, but Sanders' stat
is in the ballpark. For that reason, we rate his claim mostly true.
Reality Check: Clinton was 'busy giving speeches' to banks during financial crisis, Sanders says
Kevin Liptak, CNN
Sanders
hammered Clinton for giving speeches to financial institutions,
suggesting they had influenced her decisions on how to respond to the
financial crisis.
Saying he'd
supported breaking up large banks amid the financial meltdown, Sanders
said, "Secretary Clinton was busy giving speeches to Goldman Sachs for
$225,000 a speech."
Later, after
Clinton detailed her efforts as a senator to pass the Dodd-Frank
financial regulation, Sanders scoffed, "They must have been really
crushed by this. And was that before or after you received huge sums of
money by giving speaking engagements?"
Clinton's
record of delivering speeches to Goldman Sachs is well documented at
this point in the campaign. Clinton's financial disclosure forms show
she earned about $1.8 million for at least eight speeches to big banks.
But
those speeches were delivered in the years after her tenure as
secretary of state, and well after her time as senator. Clinton left the
Senate officially in January 2009 when she assumed her role as the top
U.S. diplomat as the financial crisis was swelling.
Her
speeches to large banks came after she left her post as secretary of
state: three speeches to Goldman Sachs in 2013 for $225,000 each, three
speeches to UBS Bank of America for the same price, and a pair of
addresses to Deutsche Bank for $225,000 and $260,000 each.
Sanders' claims on Clinton's speeches are true
and well documented. But to suggest that her speeches -- and their
subsequent paychecks -- influenced Clinton's decision-making as a
senator is false, since the paid speeches were delivered well after she left Capitol Hill.
(Editor's note: We clarified our Reality Check to split the verdict on Sanders' claims.)
Reality Check: Sanders on General Electric paying taxes
By Tami Luhby, CNNMoney
Sanders is no fan of General Electric. He and the iconic American company have been trading jabs ever since
he attacked the firm in an interview with the New York Daily News
earlier this month for sending jobs overseas and for trying to minimize
its tax bill.
The Vermont senator lashed out at GE and its CEO, Jeffrey Immelt, again at Thursday's Democratic debate.
"And
what we need to do is to tell this guy, Immelt, who's the head of
General Electric, doesn't like me, but ... well, that's fine," Sanders
said. "He has outsourced hundreds of thousands of decent paying jobs
throughout the world, cut his workforce, he has substantially, and in a
given year, by the way, turns out Verizon and General Electric, in a
given year, pay nothing in federal income tax despite making billions in
profit."
It's true that GE has cut
its U.S. workforce and sent jobs overseas. A CNNMoney analysis shows
GE's domestic footprint has shrunk dramatically over the past two
decades. Back in 1995, roughly 68% of GE's 222,000 total employees were
in the United States, according to its filings with the Securities and
Exchange Commission. By 2005, the percentage of American jobs declined
to 51%, and by the end of 2015, just 38% of its employees were in the
United States.
GE's total global
workforce has increased to 333,000. But it employs fewer American
workers today -- 125,000 versus 161,000 in 2005.
However,
it's important to note that GE is a different company than it was 20
years ago. It has shed several businesses, including NBC Universal, and
has sold off many of its finance units that were part of GE Capital.
Also, it's certainly not alone in shifting jobs overseas.
As
for whether GE pays any federal income tax, it's impossible to know for
certain without seeing the company's tax returns, which the company
does not release and are not otherwise available.
Some
groups have tried to ascertain what the company has paid over the
years. One left-leaning organization, Citizens for Tax Justice, uses
public information to assess GE's annual tax liability. CTJ recently
said that over the past 10 years, GE paid an effective federal income
tax rate of -1.6% on $58 billion in profits.
Our verdict on the tax claim is it's complicated since the company hasn't made its tax returns public.
Our verdict on jobs moving overseas: true.
Reality Check: Sanders on being one of the poorer members of the Senate
By Lisa Rose, CNN
Responding
to a question about releasing his tax returns, Sanders said the filings
would be boring to read. He sought to draw a contrast between himself
and Clinton.
"No big money from
speeches, no major investments," Sanders said. "Unfortunately, I remain
one of the poorer members of the United States Senate."
That's
a bit of false modesty from Sanders, whose net worth was estimated to
be $436,000 in 2014, according to calculations by the Center for Responsive Politics.
The
watchdog organization ranked Sanders No. 81 on a chart listing personal
wealth in the Senate. Sanders actually had a higher net worth than such
high-profile Senate colleagues as Marco Rubio (86), Robert Menendez
(87) and Lindsey Graham (88).
Sanders earned more than $200,000 in 2014, according to a tax return he released last June. His Senate salary was $174,000 and he collected an estimated $40,000 in Social Security benefits.
Although
Sanders' income ranks him in the top 6% of American earners, he is
indeed one of the "poorer" members of the Senate, in the bottom 20%.
Verdict: True.
Reality Check: Sanders 'raised millions' for his Senate colleagues
By Tom LoBianco, CNN
Defending
his credentials to be the Democratic Party's nominee for president,
Sanders argued he had "raised millions" for his Democratic colleagues in
the Senate.
"I have raised
millions of dollars for my colleagues in the United States Senate to
help them get elected. I will do everything I can to open the Democratic
Party to the young people who are flocking into our campaign," Sanders
said. "The truth is you can speak to my colleagues. We have raised
millions of dollars for the (Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee). I
have written letters that have raised just a -- if I may use the word
-- huge amount of money."
It's unclear precisely how much Sanders is responsible for raising for the DSCC, but it is clear that he headlined top-dollar fundraisers for the group during his time in the Senate.
The
retreats, led by Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid on Martha's
Vineyard, were typically attended by at least 100 top Democratic donors
-- just the type of big-money contributors Sanders regularly rails
against -- who gave at least $33,400 to the DSCC, $100,000 to the
Democratic Party, or both.
Sanders
has not "raised millions" for other Democrats through his presidential
campaign, like Clinton has, but he was an active fundraiser for the
Senate Democrats. He was one of many Democrats who attended the retreats
and was part of the larger draw floated by Democratic leadership to
pull in donors. However, it appears unlikely that any single senator
"raised millions" at the DSCC donor retreats.
Verdict: False.
Hillary Clinton
Reality Check: Clinton says she supported $15 minimum wage
By Tom LoBianco, CNN
Debating
Sanders in New York, where state lawmakers recently approved a
$15-an-hour minimum wage, Clinton strongly suggested that she had been
pushing for that much throughout her campaign.
"I
have supported the fight for 15. I am proud to have the endorsement of
most of the unions that have led the fight for 15. I was proud to stand
on the stage with Gov. (Andrew) Cuomo, with (Service Employees
International Union) and others who have been leading this battle, and I
will work as hard as I can to raise the minimum wage. I always have. I
supported that when I was in the Senate," Clinton said.
Sanders,
who introduced a bill to set the federal minimum wage at $15, quickly
shot back, "I am sure a lot of people are very surprised to learn that
you supported raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour."
Clinton has long supported raising the minimum wage, but only recently came around to supporting a $15 minimum wage.
In
November, she proposed a $12 federal minimum wage, and said it should
be left to localities to decide whether they wanted to raise the wage
further.
The Clinton campaign explains on its website:
"Hillary believes we are long overdue in raising the minimum wage. She
has supported raising the federal minimum wage to $12, and believes that
we should go further than the federal minimum through state and local
efforts, and workers organizing and bargaining for higher wages, such as
the Fight for 15 and recent efforts in Los Angeles and New York to
raise their minimum wage to $15. She also supports the Obama
administration's expansion of overtime rules to millions more workers."
But
cities and states already have the power to raise their own minimum
wages -- something cities and states across the nation have been doing
for more than a year now. Clinton placed a point on it when she stood by
Cuomo earlier this month at a rally shortly after he signed the state's
new $15 minimum wage.
Verdict: True, but misleading.
Reality Check: Clinton on Sanders' Libya 'vote'
By Laura Koran, CNN
Clinton
defended the Obama administration's involvement in the 2011 NATO-led
intervention in Libya, and furthermore, suggested her opponent supported
those actions as well.
"I would
just point out that there was a vote in the Senate as to whether or not
the United States should support the efforts by the Libyan people to
protect themselves against the threats -- the genocidal threats coming
from (then-leader Moammar) Gadhafi, and whether we should go to the
United Nations to seek Security Council support," Clinton said. "Senator
Sanders voted for that and that's exactly what we did."
In
early 2011, the Senate approved a bipartisan resolution "strongly
condemning the gross and systematic violations of human rights in Libya,
including violent attacks on protesters demanding democratic reforms
and for other purposes."
Sanders
was one of the co-sponsors of that resolution, which was approved by
unanimous consent but didn't explicitly authorize U.S. military
intervention in Libya.
In fact, at no point did the U.S. Congress give the Obama administration formal authorization under the War Powers Resolution.
An
authorization bill was drafted by Sens. John Kerry and John McCain, but
the legislation was tabled before it could be voted on by Sanders or
anyone else.
The Senate
resolution, which was largely symbolic, did endorse actions taken by the
United Nations Security Council, and urged that body "to take such
further action as may be necessary to protect civilians in Libya from
attack, including the possible imposition of a no-fly zone over Libyan
territory."
The resolution also
welcomed the administration's outreach to opposition groups in Libya and
noted support for "an orderly, irreversible transition to a legitimate
democratic government in Libya."
Because
the resolution was approved by unanimous consent, Sanders didn't
technically "vote" on it, but as a co-sponsor, it's clear he endorsed
the measure.
So did Sanders support the intervention?
In
a June 2011 interview, Sanders told CNN's Wolf Blitzer he had
"reservations" about the Obama administration's military intervention in
Libya.
"I mean, we are in a huge deficit," Sanders said. "We are in two wars. And I would become somewhat conservative on that issue."
Our
verdict: Sen. Sanders co-sponsored a resolution endorsing U.N. Security
Council action in Libya. He never technically voted on the measure, but
his endorsement of it was clear. Clinton's assertion is therefore mostly true.
Reality Check: On Social Security Cap, Clinton claims she and Sanders agree
By Kate Grise, CNN
During
one of their many sparring matches during the debate, Clinton tried to
convince her opponent that they had more in common than not on the issue
of Social Security. Regarding raising the payroll income cap, Clinton
said that she and Sanders actually share the same view.
"I have supported it. We are in vigorous agreement here, senator," Clinton said.
Sanders
didn't appear convinced about his opponent's commitment to protect the
Social Security trust fund by asking wealthier Americans to pay more.
"If
I hear you correctly, Madam Secretary, you are now coming out finally
in favor of lifting the cap on taxable income and extending and
expanding social security," Sanders said. "If that is the case, welcome
on board. I'm glad you're here."
During her campaign, Clinton has been warming to the idea of raising the cap on income that can be taxed for Social Security.
Under current law, workers do not pay Social Security taxes on anything they earn above $118,500.
According
to Clinton's website, she aims to defend Social Security and
"understands that there is no way to accomplish that goal without asking
the highest-income Americans to pay more, including options to tax some
of their income above the current Social Security cap, and taxing some
of their income not currently taken into account by the Social Security
system."
Clinton, in campaign
appearances, has also said she is committed to extending the life of the
Social Security trust fund. She has pointed to taxing incomes at higher
levels and applying Social Security taxes to passive income as ways of
doing so, but, unlike Senator Sanders, she has stopped short of
proposing any specific plans to ensure the longevity of Social Security.
And
these comments are a shift from her position in 2008 on lifting the
cap. During her first run for the White House, Clinton spoke out against
the idea. "I'm certainly against one of Senator Obama's ideas, which is
to lift the cap on the payroll tax," Clinton said during a Democratic
primary debate in 2008.
We rate her claim as true,
but given her lack of specific proposals, it's understandable Sanders
is skeptical of his opponent's long-standing commitment on the issue.
Reality Check: Clinton on out-of-state guns in New York crimes
By Kate Grise and Eve Bower, CNN
Clinton
has recently suggested that places such as Sanders' home state of
Vermont are responsible for much of the gun violence in New York.
She
didn't go that far Thursday night, but she did say: "The facts are that
most of the guns that end up committing crimes in New York come from
out of state. They come from the states that don't have the kind of
serious efforts to control guns that we do in New York."
The statistics on where guns used in crimes come from are complicated.
The
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives recovered a total
of 7,686 guns in 2014, but only 4,585 of those were traced back to the
states where they were last registered. That means that a full 40% of
those guns cannot be linked definitively to any state at all -- a fact
that severely limits the validity of Clinton's claim.
Of the 4,585 that can be linked to a state, more than 30% come from inside New York state itself.
Furthermore,
the ATF's database of traced weapons is itself limited to begin with.
The ATF says "not all firearms used in crime are traced and not all
firearms traced are used in crime." So we don't even know that all of
the guns traced were used in violent crimes, as Clinton implies. Because
of the imperfections in the data set, the ATF says the data "should not
be considered representative of the larger universe of all firearms
used by criminals." Even though the ATF's data is incomplete, it is
still the best record of weapons that have been recovered by law
enforcement and then traced.
Clinton
avoided wading into more trouble by staying away from her statement
earlier in the week that "the state that has the highest per capita
number of those guns that end up committing crimes in New York come from
Vermont."
Of the guns traced to a
state, only 55, or just over 1%, were traced to Vermont. Her emphasis on
the phrase "per capita" makes all the difference: just 55 of the 4,585
guns that the ATF traced in New York in 2014 came from Vermont. As a
share of Vermont's total population of some 626,000, that ends up being
8.7 guns per 100,000 residents. South Carolina, Virginia, and Georgia
are the next closest states with 5.3, 4.74, and 3.82 per capita,
respectively.
Both during Thursday
night's debate and in her comments last week, Clinton is making a claim
that is a big leap based on the evidence available. But because the
evidence is too incomplete to prove her wrong, our verdict has to be it's complicated.
Reality Check: Clinton's role getting NATO involved in Libya
By Eve Bower, CNN
During
an extended exchange about America's role in the downfall of Gadhafi,
Clinton and Sanders clashed over the nature of Clinton's influence
within the Obama administration in early 2011. And though numerous
senior officials at the time painted a picture of an active and
influential Clinton, on the Brooklyn debate stage five years later,
Clinton seemed to downplay her own role in crafting U.S. policy in
Libya.
In a recent interview,
President Barack Obama said that his administration's "failing" to plan
for the aftermath of the 2011 U.S.-led NATO intervention in Libya was
among his biggest mistakes in office. Echoing this, Sanders accused
Clinton of having contributed to a "very dangerous foothold" for ISIS in
Libya through her "active effort for regime change" as part of the
Obama administration at the time.
In
her response, Clinton emphasized that the decision to intervene was
Obama's, and that her role as secretary of state was -- merely, she
implied -- one of "due diligence."
But
as the President announced his administration's decision to enforce a
no-fly zone in March 2011, senior U.S. officials were clear that Clinton
had been instrumental in persuading U.S. allies to join the coalition.
Clinton
traveled between Washington, Paris, Cairo, and Tunisia, pressuring her
counterparts in other countries to send planes to Libya and support a
United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing intervention.
In
these actions, she is widely described as having been part of a strong
alliance of powerful voices within Obama's administration that included
U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice and National Security
Council member Samantha Power. Clinton's advocacy put her at odds,
however, with Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who had publicly argued
against a no-fly zone, and Vice President Joe Biden, who was said to
favor a much more cautious approach.
Perhaps
some of the clearest signs that Clinton herself, at one time at least,
saw the importance of her own role can be found in emails she exchanged
with advisers in 2011, and later made public as part of congressional
inquiries into the deaths of four Americans in the 2012 Benghazi terror
attack. In one email, she complained to staffers about timelines they
had compiled for the media that did not show "much of what I did." One
such timeline detailed a "tick-tock" of 22 milestones in Clinton's
"leadership/ownership/stewardship of this country's Libya policy from
start to finish."
Clinton's
minimized her efforts at Thursday's debate as mere "due diligence."
Because the statement obscures the real impacts she had, we rate her
statement as false.
Reality Check: Clinton on toy guns
By Lisa Rose, CNN
During
a contentious discussion of gun control, Clinton criticized Sanders for
his vote supporting a 2005 law that protects firearms dealers and
manufacturers from consumer lawsuits. The Protection of Lawful Commerce
in Arms Act limits the liability of gun companies when crime victims try
to sue.
Clinton described the law
as a "gift" to the gun industry. She declared, "We have tougher
standards holding toy gun manufacturers and sellers to account than we
do for real guns."
There actually
are not rigorous rules for toy gun manufacturers and sellers, beyond the
usual consumer product safety protections. Imitation firearms like air
rifles and BB guns must be marked with an orange tip, in accordance with
a law passed in 1990, but there are no further federal regulations on
the controversial toys.
Although
it's clear that Clinton was trying to punctuate her point by comparing
manufacturers of real guns with those of fake guns, her suggestion that
there are tough standards for toy guns is, at the very least, an
overstatement.
Verdict: False.
Bernie Sanders & Hillary Clinton
Reality Check: Did Obama do enough to stave off global climate change?
By Amy Gallagher, CNN
Sanders
and Clinton engaged in an heated exchange about whether incremental
measures are enough in the face of the impending threat of climate
change. Sanders threw down the gauntlet by comparing the threat of a
climate change to the threat of an attack on the United States, saying,
"we have an enemy" and going on to list "droughts, floods and extreme
weather events" as the imminent threats we face from climate change.
Clinton
countered by touting her role, along with Obama, in bringing about the
Paris Agreement for greenhouse gas emissions reduction, claiming that
"putting together 195 countries ... was a major accomplishment ... and
(Obama) deserves our appreciation." Sanders described this and other
actions taken by Clinton during her tenure as secretary of state as"
incremental" and said "we have a crisis of historical consequence here
... and those little steps are not enough."
In question here is whether the Paris Agreement, also known as COP21, goes far enough
to prevent irreversible damage from climate change. It is acknowledged
that the reductions agreed to by the governments of those 195 countries
do not go far enough to meet the goal of preventing average temperatures
from rising more than 2 degrees Celsius.
What
this means is that while compliance with the Paris agreement would
lessen the effects of global warming, it would not prevent irreversible
damage from occurring. The countries that produce the most greenhouse
gases have not committed to reduce their emissions enough. We rate
Sanders' claim as true that this step is incremental and does not go far enough to prevent a climate change crisis.
However,
it is generally conceded that when facing a threat that is imminent and
complex and which requires massive changes to the way that energy is
produced and consumed in residential, commercial and industrial
settings, cooperation between governments is absolutely a critical piece
of any response and is difficult to accomplish.
In many cases, such as in strategic arms limitation agreements,
a first agreement with small goals has built trust between governments
that all parties will abide by their side of the agreement and thereby
paved the way for further commitments to greater change in the future.
Before
the Paris agreement, China, India and the United States had not
previously all participated in any greenhouse gas reduction agreement.
We therefore also rate Clinton's claim as true that the
accomplishment of Obama's administration, with her participation, in
bringing China, India and the United States, the world's three largest
polluters, together to commit to reducing greenhouse gas emissions was a
major accomplishment and one that experts believe is a critical first
step to a global climate change solution.
CNN's Chad Weaver, Justin Gamble and Katelyn Newman contributed to this report
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